Observations

[stop the bus]

saf- Put my name in the ring for ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms ), DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration )and AP (Ambassador to Pattaya).

[kyzlor]

Seems a right fit for Bus.

Now I must assume since I am Minister of Defence, that Administrator of Protocol, Keeper of the Keys to the Major Harem and all State issued chastity belts and Head Swave and Deboner guy is included. To paraphrase the dumbest leader the free world ever managed to spawn, "Bring 'em on!"

[saf]

saf- Put my name in the ring for ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms ), DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration )and AP (Ambassador to Pattaya).

OK. Let's call the job 'Minister For Unofficial Ministerial Incomes And Pleasures'.

[saf]

Seems a right fit for Bus.

Now I must assume since I am Minister of Defence, that Administrator of Protocol, Keeper of the Keys to the Major Harem and all State issued chastity belts and Head Swave and Deboner guy is included. To paraphrase the dumbest leader the free world ever managed to spawn, "Bring 'em on!"

Agreed with the exception of Keeper of the Keys to the Major Harem and All State Issued Chastity Belts. I think that job might be auctioned. Do you think that we might ban chastity belts from the Realm on public nuisance grounds?

[The1]

An old Thailand hand once told me that face is what you have when you have nothing else to lose.

It is true that we all have "face" to some degree or an other but here, it is on a completely different level.
It also seems, that it is used at their discretion and not by any rulebook.
Just another reason I find Thailand so beautiful and interesting. if not frustrating at times.

[Spitfire]

'Face' is an Asian thing, I'm not sure if I have any 'face' to lose really because as a westerner I couldn't really give a toss what anyone thinks about me or my life. We are conditioned not to care. Yes, we could be embarrassed/wronged etc with an eventuality but it's not a 'face' thing in the way the Asians see it, which almost resembles a childrens school yard, look no further than the TV soap operas . 'Face' seems to me something the Thais (or Asians) think they have through blatantly lying about so much, creating an unreal perception/image of themselves which they want to project to comfort themselves and the truth would destroy this fantasy, hence they are distraught or vengeful if caught out in their lies or fabrications. Nothing is real here in this sense, the Thais with real power/respect/face are usually fairly discreet, the 'wanna be' lot are overt and consious of protecting somthing they neither really have nor deserve, it's just in their mind. They are all hopelessly brainwashed to believe they have 'face' when really they don't, this is a cultural trick that helps keep them in their place, amongst other things.

Controversial, I know, but just forwarding a possible viewpoint to be pushed around the table.

[saf]

I think that Westerners, in general at least, do care about face but handle it differently.

[The1]

I think that Westerners, in general at least, do care about face but handle it differently.

Of course "westerners" want to be perceived in a good light and have others think good of them but I agree with Spitfire.
Some Thai's will lie/ make up stories about themselves to look better. Then when discovered, they "lose face" ....Strange.

My favorite one is when the families get together for a holiday in the home village and come from all points unknown to be with their parents. They like to stop by the gold shop and rent some jewelry for the party and return it when the party is over.

[Spitfire]

My favorite one is when the families get together for a holiday in the home village and come from all points unknown to be with their parents.

Absolutely there, I bet the parents have no idea 7 times out of 10 what their children are really doing or where they are, as it may well be below par or unacceptable to the family, the rural village is a cherished La La land which many aspire to return to, hence the lies to preserve or increase their standing or image there, that's why it's so important as many wish to return and make all who put them down in their formative years lose face through their successful return to the village , look at the soapsl. The Thais are masters of "What they don't know won't hurt" and "The end justify the means." At least until they get busted and then it's the sh*t hits the fan in a rampage that resembles something from the Old Testiment.

Something I will never quite get used to here is the level on which I'm lied to and the frequency/blatantness of the lies from all, like work/social/all, and most are a blatant attempt to be self-serving on the part of the Thai. True, farangs are guilty of gratuitously lying too but even the Thai guy at the PPT station lies to me about how much air PSI he's put in the tyres of my motorbike as opposed to what I requested because he didn't really understand what I said, whether in Thai or English, and the over-riding concern is to save face infront of his work colleges.

Not being definitive ,just observations to be pushed around the table.